As I compile monthly data for my eBay report I have noted a large
increase in lures with very high reserves and/or starting bids. A
large majority of these lures do not sell. This is very similar to the
trend that appeared in quality bamboo rod offerings a couple of years
ago. I'm not sure if these rod sellers just gave up and decided to
wait for prices to increase, ended up conducting private sales, or
were just searching for an appraisal of their collectibles, but most
of them have disappeared. Lure sales now seem to be following a
similar path.
There are rare lures coming up every day that run the
gambit from genuine antiques to modern plastic lures which are not
selling. The starting bids are so high that it is obvious that these
sellers are not conducting an auction, they are setting a price that
they hope will lure one buyer. It is difficult to ascertain if these
sellers are just speculators who bought as an investment and are now
trying to make a profit, or if they are older collectors who are now
trying to make a killing with their collection.
Whatever the answer, this type of auction usually
fails. After compiling my eBay report for over five years, it has
become obvious to me that the auction format works the best. When an
item starts at a reasonable starting bid, it usually sells even if
there is a reserve.
Everyone hopes to recoup their investment in their
tackle, but few came into the hobby to make a profit. At this time the
speculator that bought high and is hoping to sell even higher seems to
have made a bad investment.
Phil White - 6/06
First off, I hope everyone has had a successful 2005 and that the New
Year will be even better.
2005 illustrated that eBay is not going away. Use it and enjoy it - it
is probably the greatest resource that has ever been available for
collectors. Sure there are crooks out there. There are crooks
everywhere. Just use common sense and you'll be able to see more good
stuff in a day than we used to see in a month of shows.
Evolve with the times. There are thousands more people collecting
fishing tackle than ever, and the bargains are scooped up immediately,
or by those with deep pockets. Wowsers don't come easy anymore. Older
collectors have to either step up and be willing to put out more money
for their items, or branch out into new fields. This is what always
happens. Lures that cost a hundred dollars in the 1970s are thousands
now - unless you bought the wrong ones. Some are probably still only
worth $100 for we learned they are more common than everyone thought.
If you don't either step up to the high dollar items or find new
fields such as 1980s reels or lures you'll be out of tackle
collecting.
Lang's November Auction proved that there are still a lot of people
willing to put big dollars into fishing tackle. I don't think any of
us ever dreamed that a single auction would pass the one million
dollar mark. And it probably hasn't ended. Many old time collectors
are ready to leave the hobby and there are going to be some great
items make it to the market. However, they are not going to be
cheap.
Go to a show or two (or ten) and enjoy yourself visiting with other
collectors. That's what it's all about.
And finally, go fishing! That's where it all started. Take a kid
fishing an get him started in the sport. Maybe he'll someday write the
definitive book on Great Lakes Whirlaway reels.
Have a happy and prosperous New Year.
Phil White
At the NFLCC National Show last week, I about blew a gasket. I
walked into a room on Wednesday afternoon and found it filled with
"Winchester collectibles". It took no time at all to spot many of the
items shown on the Winchester fakes page
of this website. There were fake postcards, hook packages, fish signs,
bait cartons, counter signs, etc. The bed in this room was a massive
display of fakery.
My initial reaction was that this was a display of fake Winchester
stuff. I noticed that there were no prices on any of the goods. When I
asked the person in the room why he had all the fake items on display
I learned that they were for sale. He stated that he knew they were
fakes and apparently I knew they were fakes, but people have to learn
for themselves what's real and what's not.
Just a minute now - he was telling me that it is OK to sell fake
items so that people will learn how to tell fakes from real stuff.
That's a great attitude. I think I'll start printing $10 bills on my
printer and pass them at the local stores. If I get caught I'll tell
the judge I was just doing it to train the clerks to recognize
counterfeit bills. I'm sure that would go over real well in court.
I steamed out of the room looking for an NFLCC official to talk to,
but got headed off by a friend. I was informed by another Winchester
collector that the fake stuff was removed from the bed later that
afternoon.
I never did see this stuff on the show floor. Was this person an NFLCC
member? One more strike for room trading.
Phil White - 7/05
The 2004 NFLCC National Meet was very well organized; the Convention
Center was very nice; the personnel in the hotel could not have been
nicer; Joe's Crab Shack had great sea food; I had a great time; etc.
etc.
However, attendance at the show was down. Or was it? The NFLCC format
makes it very hard to know, since many people come to the National,
rent a room in a hotel, and sell fishing tackle. They don't come to
the show. According to the show chart there were 315 exhibitors with
399 tables. That's around 6% of the membership. For that turnout, the
show has to be held in the mid-west each year?
The problem is ROOM TRADING. I know, you love it. However, before you
tar and feather me just stop and think a bit. How many hotel rooms had
tackle in them that never made it to the show floor? How many people
were wandering the halls that didn't come to the show? I am aware of
quite a few, and I'm sure you know lots of others that I am not aware
of. I also saw several friends wandering the halls that aren't even
members of the NFLCC. How many people went home Wednesday night or
Thursday morning?
These people use the NFLCC and contribute nothing. They just take. Anyone can rent a
room and open their door. Anyone can walk the halls and buy tackle.
They can take advantage of the gathering of tackle collectors to sell
or buy, and contribute nothing for the privilege.
The major logistic problem in finding a site for the NFLCC National is
finding a hotel (for room trading) along with a convention site.
Almost every major city has a convention center large enough to host
the NFLCC Show. These cities also have lots of hotel/motel rooms. They
just aren't next door to a convention center. It's the room trading
that makes it hard to find a site.
Why do people love room trading?
So they can grab the early bargains. If everyone set up a table
in a convention center on Thursday with no room trading preceding it,
everyone would still be able to grab those bargains. And there would
probably be a lot more tables with bargains to check out. All those
people in the hotel would have to come to the show. And the neat old
fishing stuff would be spread out on tables for you to see, not laying
on beds or in
boxes stuck in a corner with no lighting.
Why do people love room trading?
So they can see their old friends and sit on a bed and visit.
Have a great chat at Joe's Crab Shack over a beer and shrimp when the
show is over. It's far more comfortable than sitting on the edge of a
bed. Rent a table so that you can sit down and visit with your
friends.
Why do people love room trading?
So they can play poker on into the night. Sorry, but I really
don't think that's a key function of the NFLCC.
Please stop and think... If there was a show and no room trading you'd
only have to rent a room for a couple of nights. You wouldn't have to
worry about lighting. You wouldn't have to unpack and pack up twice.
You could arrive Thursday morning (or noon time, or whatever) and all
NFLCC members could get in early during the set up. Man! Would that be
a rush. It would be every man with an equal chance. It would be great!
When the NFLCC gets out of the hotel business and starts putting on a
show that is open to the public, attendance will grow. Table sales
will grow when the public comes in the door with their old tackle
boxes full of lures to sell. Signs will sprout on tables declaring
"I'm an expert on Heddon", "I buy Kentucky Reels", etc. Sure, the
vultures will meet them in the parking lot and try to steal their
tackle. I would think that the NFLCC could put a stop to that real
fast. I would
also think that the public is smart enough to only get fleeced once.
They were very smart at the shows I attended for many years.
For 25 years I bought and sold at gun and sporting collectibles shows
all over the US. I purchased some wonderful items that made it all the
way to the back of the show when I was set up back there. Many people came
looking for me because I was fair with them in past dealings. People
came looking for me because they knew I specialized in certain items.
Saturday would become a real show day, because many working people
would come to a tackle show for the first time. Maybe they'd buy those low
end decorator tackle items, but they'd be there just to see what it
was all about. And they'd bring grandpa's tackle box. They'd bring
their kids who might just decide they want to collect tackle too.
Why doesn't the NFLCC open their shows to the public? The days of
hiding the price tags so people won't know that old fishing tackle is
sometimes valuable are gone. Even your barber heard about the $100,000
Haskell Minnow. There are a million fishermen out there that would
love to see your old lures and reels, but they won't join the NFLCC
just for the privilege. Many of them would become collectors and
friends.
The money made on admissions would easily offset the problems created
by an open show. Just ask the hundreds of antique and gun show
promoters who make their livings putting on shows. And please, don't
give me that old story that the public might steal from you. Of course
some
will. However, it also happens during room trading and on the show
floor as it is now.
However, I've been preaching this same story to the NFLCC for over 20
years now... It just ain't gonna get done. One of these days a sharp
promoter is going to come along and put on some shows. That's when the
NFLCC better start to worry.
Phil White, July 2004
The March issue of Field & Stream magazine has a pretty good article
about old fishing tackle, and it's value today. In the article by John Merwin, they detail the purchase of the Salt Water Haskell Minnow by
Tracey Shirey and have a nice profile of Tracey, including a photo of
him with the Haskell. Accompanying the main article there are some
nice photos of some very good reels.
Quoted in the article are yours truly, Phil White, reel collector Jim
Brown, and Rick Edmisten. And honestly guys, I didn't say that the
Luny Frog was a wooden lure.
Even before I was aware of the article, I started receiving emails
that seemed a little different. They were more like the phone calls I
used to get years ago when I advertised locally for old fishing
tackle. "I've got this old bamboo rod - what's it worth?"
The mystery of this increase in email activity was solved when I
purchased a copy of Field & Stream to read the article, and found "The
Internet abounds with old-tackle information. Among the better
websites is Phil White's at www.oldfishingstuff.com, which includes
monthly summaries of notable tackle sales on eBay."
As always, I have tried to answer all these emails politely and
promptly.
Thanks, Field & Stream!
Phil White
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Controversy is nothing new among NFLCC members. I
spent many years arguing with our Regional powers for more open shows
and member input into the management of the NFLCC. It was all to no
avail, except to alienate regional members who had no thoughts of
growth and new members. In the old days we actually had to hide our
“for sale” items so that the public wouldn’t have any idea that some
lures were worth a great deal of money. I have friends who removed
“member NFLCC” from their business cards because the public wouldn’t
do business with them if they found out they were a member of the
“group that screwed my friend…” But that’s old history.
The recent announcement of an updated set of
By-Laws brought a new round of complaints about the governing of the
NFLCC on the popular message board at Joe Yates web site (www.joeyates.com). The major
problems seem to be:
- A lack of democratic
voting.
- A problem with
reproductions, repaints and fakes.
- Finances and Salaries.
The battle for voting rights of members has been
fought before. Texan Bill Smith, Sr. fought the battle several years
ago and lost. He lost because the deck is stacked. According to the
By-Laws only members who are in attendance at the annual meeting held
at the NFLCC National are allowed to vote in elections and changes in
structure of the corporation. Many of the members who would like to
have an opportunity to vote on changes or on the officers and money
managers within the club are those who do not attend the NFLCC
National. Sorry guys, it ain’t gonna happen. It may be the democratic
way, but it’s not the NFLCC way. The NFLCC is run by one person – the
President. Read the By-Laws; once elected, he appoints all committees,
editors, and club shop personnel. These appointments are approved by
the Board of Directors, but they are his appointments. The membership
has only one voice – the election of their regional VP; and these
officials have little clout.
The Reproduction Lure problem is a major bone of
contention with many members. Even VP Warren Platt, who seems to be
the only VP willing to discuss problems with members, concluded that
the By-Laws seem to disallow advertising of reproduction lures in
NFLCC publications.
However a Regional Vice-President advertises his reproduction
Winchester lures in many issues. I guess a member will have to file a
formal complaint with his Regional VP before this issue can be
settled.
I wonder how many members realize that the NFLCC
Secretary/Treasurer is paid over $14,000 per year? I don’t believe
I’ve ever heard that mentioned when asking for candidates to run for
office. I would think that for that amount of money the S/T could at least
have his email address printed on the web site so that members could
contact him for information.
The two editors are each paid a basic
$2000 for each issue of the Gazette and Magazine, but receive an
additional $50 for every 100 members over the base of 4000 members
(the same as the S/T). I don’t understand how their work load
increases as the membership increases, since they don’t do the
printing or mailing. The Gazette has the same number of pages to fill
regardless of how many members are in the NFLCC. The printer and
mailer have more work as the membership increases, but not the
editors. I would assume that there are lots of members who would be
interested in compiling a simple newsletter like the Gazette for
approximately $10,000 a year. George Richey was a great Editor and
contributor and his unfortunate death created a vacancy. I don’t
remember hearing about a call for members who were interested in
applying for the position. I don’t remember anyone telling the members
that they could earn approximately $10,000 per year for compiling the
simple newletter, the NFLCC Gazette.
What’s with this nearly half-million dollar fund?
According to the By-Laws “The
S/T will maintain a one-year operating expense in the NFLCC treasury
as a reserve or contingency fund. The reserve fund will be derived
mainly from Life Membership dues, and it will be kept in an
appropriate interest-bearing account decided on by the S/T.” I believe
the Secretary/Treasurer’s report in the last issue of the Gazette
shows the operating expenses for 2002-03 to be $38,758.19 (This
sketchy financial report is very difficult to interpret). However, the
fund balance is shown to be $401,822.58. That appears to me to be over
10 years operating expenses. With that amount of money in the fund I
hope our S/T is bonded, since there is provision for that in the
By-Laws.
It seems
that the time has come for the NFLCC to look to their younger
offshoot, the Old Reel Collectors Association for inspiration. Despite
having less than 1000 members and having had no regional shows to pay
the bills, ORCA provides members the following:
Think what
ORCA could do with $400,000 in the bank.
Phil White
These views are my own and do not
represent ORCA, the Reel News, or the ORCA Board of Directors.
Readers might also want to read
the
comments of Mike Echols
Back to Top
Is the glass half empty, or half full? It all depends upon your
perspective. It appears to me that 2003 was half full. We had a record
lure sale with the salt water Haskell Minnow
and there have been some other tremendous lure and reel sales during
the past 12 months. The economy is improving which will push sales
even higher. The auction of Don Thoms
reels and Moonlight/Paw Paw stuff was an event to be remembered for a
lifetime. I found a few nice items for my collection... Yes, it was a
good year.
If you are a half empty believer, you'll cry over the passing of
the OFS email address book. I have decided to remove the address book
due to some collectors not notifying OFS when they changed addresses,
and the tremendous increase in spam email in recent months. That
address book is a magnet to those programs used by the spammers to
gather addresses. It would be a very simple matter for the NFLCC to
include email addresses in their Roster. I know, for I put together
the ORCA Roster and we not only include email addresses but collector
interests. Once set up, it takes no more work to include these fields
in your data. Maybe someday...
Another downer is the continuation of the fake items
being foisted on tackle collectors. Many of these items are so obvious
that I have little sympathy for the buyers but some of the fantasy
items are getting better. The recent sale of a fake J. F & B. F. Meek
reel and the current selling of a fake Snyder reel show that there
really is a sucker born every moment. These counterfeits are so
blatant that you'd think no one could possibly be taken in by them but
bidders are lining up to be the owner. The high prices paid for some lures and
reels today are bound to bring more sophisticated counterfeiters into
our hobby. Collectors need to learn everything they can and ask other
collectors for help.
Hopefully you noticed the date on the home page of OFS. This was
added to emphasize the fact that OFS is a magazine type web site. We
hope you will visit us often, but I guarantee that the site will be
updated around the first of each month. There are somewhere around 500
collectors who regularly click on this site each month to read the eBay report. We
hope you'll stay to read more than just that report. We also have
thousands of visitors each month who come to gather information about
the lure or reel they have just found. Welcome to all of you, and come
back daily, or in a month for some new articles and information.
Phil White
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A
Guest Editorial & a Response:
I
recently attended the Carlisle Show and it was great seeing old
friends. I was able to put three nice baits in my collection, but I
observed some things that were disturbing to me. It was real obvious
that sales of good quality baits were way off. I hadn't seen that
quantity and quality of baits available at one show before. And for
the most part they went home with the people who brought them to sell.
Our
hobby seems to be in decline and there are a lot of dynamics at play
here, many of which are out of our control. The popularity of the
internet certainly has had an impact, both good and bad. It has
brought a lot of good baits to market, but it has also reduced the
need to attend shows to buy or sell. Why bother packing up all that
stuff and traveling hours if the sales just aren't there? Why not just
throw it all up on eBay from the comfort of your home. Like wise why
bother traveling in search of baits if you can surf the net and find
more baits in a night than you could ever afford. And if shows and the
comraderie that they spread and the knowledge that can be shared
should go the way of the dinosaurs that would be a real shame. By the
way, for those of you that have never been to a show, the baits that
you will see at one good show would blow the internet away. Just at
Carlisle I saw 2 Paredee minnows, a Jersey Expert, Creek Chub Intro
boxes, a Heddon underwater Expert, Deckers, Donalys and Winchesters all
new in boxes. Literally hundreds of absolutely extraordinary baits. Go
to eBay tonight and find me five baits of that quality.
Of
course the economy and events related to Sept. 11th are going to have
a negative impact on values. Face it, if some one is worried about
their job they're going to be less likely to buy those investment
quality baits. But even the mid and low end stuff appeared to be flat
to me. A couple of friends said they had a good show but nearly
everyone I talked to thought sales were terrible. Like I said if we
lose the shows, we're going to lose a lot.
I
think a big part of the problem is that we need some fresh blood in
the hobby. New collectors that can come to shows not just to buy baits
but to gain real knowledge. Bring a case or two of your best stuff to
the next show just to display and share your knowledge with other
collectors. Face it, this is just like any other economy, supply and
demand determines prices. If new collectors don't join our ranks and
some of the great collections that are in older members hands hit the
street the supply will go up with declining demand and all our
collections will be devalued. I know a lot of people say it's not
about the money, but for me that's not true. I love this hobby as much
as anyone, I've been fishing for forty years and collecting for seven
and I don't know which I enjoy more, but I've also got a lot of hard
earned money invested in this hobby and I'd like to think that when
the time comes to pass these historic pieces onto the next collector
that I didn't lose money.
And
Finally, for my real pet peeve, that I think will ultimately destroy
our hobby and we must put an end to it. It's the fakes, repaints and
reproductions that are flooding our hobby. This ain't Beanie Babies,
we're collecting historic artifacts and as we allow greedy individuals
to profiteer off of our hobby it will hurt us all. Why would any
potential new collector want to get involved in a hobby with all of
the fakes, repaints and frauds being sold? I know a lot of heavy
people in our hobby won't agree with me, but why should they. They're
all making a lot of money on our backs. Why strive to find, or buy
that Heddon 700 in bar perch, just have some one paint one up for you.
What were REAL Winchester 5 hookers and Pflueger Kent Frogs in boxes
worth before all of these reproductions hit the market? What are they
worth today?
Well I
saw 2 mint Winchesters in boxes (REAL ONES) at Carlisle and they both
went home with the people who brought them, because in reality no one
wants to own them due to all the reproductions out there. Tonight I
see that you can buy a whole set of reproduction Heddon Flyrod Punkies
on eBay, including the rare red head flitter. Just like the rare blue
Winchester fake you can get if you buy a six pack of the fakes. And
that's advertised in the NFLCC Gazette no less. What's next -
perfectly reproduced Heddon wood slide top boxes? Will the club allow
ads for that too. Like I said this ain't Beanie Babies, this is
supposed to be about real genuine historic artifacts. And if we want
to get more new collectors involved in this hobby we better try to put
and end to this nonsense. When it's time for me to retire I don't want
to go fishing with baits I paid thousands for.
One
last thought. Not knocking the Carlisle Show, once again (like he
always does) Bart did a fantastic job putting on a great show that was
well attended with lots of public the problems are more internal and
If you agree with me then contact your regional VP's and tell them how
you feel about the fake, repaint and reproduction issues.
Tim Clancy - email
Tim Clancy
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A
Response to the above Editorial
Tim,
I know my father, Doc Herr, would have agreed
with your take on the repaints, fakes and repops. We had numerous
discussions about this development in the tackle collecting field for
a number of years before he passed away. He called me one evening
many years ago and asked me to stop by because he wanted my opinion
about the paint on a lure. I asked him what he thought I would know
that he didn't. He figured since I dealt in antique furniture and handled a lot of
pieces with original paint he could glean something from my
experience. I remember telling him I only pass judgments on paint in
the sunlight. So I stopped by for coffee the next morning and the lure
was lying on the placemat where I always parked at the kitchen table.
What do you think?, he asked. I took it outside and studied it and said it's been
repainted, but what do I know? He said," That's what I thought. Damn
good job though. Boy I hate to see that happening."
It was just beginning to happen in the field of
paint decorated furniture at the time. Caused a tremendous level of
mis-trust by potential collector-investors. However, in the long run,
the prices of the straight, true and right stuff have skyrocketed to
unimaginable levels. The high end buyers and dealers in that
field have degrees of experience that enable them to sort what's right
and what's not out so the supply and demand for the better stuff has
actually increased. However, unscrupulous dealers and naive collectors
are still selling and buying a lot of "new" paint and the level of
mistrust in that marketplace actually pushes up the prices for the
right stuff. But that's that.
I remember asking Dad why the NFLCC was selling
new 'Creek Chubb' lures some years ago. He gave me one of those looks
of his and said, I guess they're collectibles. I guess, I said.
I'm actually pretty new to the tackle collecting
field. Naturally a lot rubbed off on me from all the hours spent with
Dad and his collection. Now that I've spent a thousand hours
cataloging everything and having been smitten with the collecting bug
--seriously-- in the process, I can see that on the upper levels of
collecting, our hobby needs some new, younger collectors if the value
levels of some of the older collections are to be maintained.
I am so fortunate that so many of the collectors
who respected my father have so willingly been sharing their knowledge
and collections with me. I have learned more in the past year
than the average newcomer could learn in multiple years. I have seen a
lot of fine, top of the line merchandise for sale this year as well as
a lot of clean, mid-line tackle at affordable prices. To get to
my point, I know the best stuff in any field always sells. What I'm
beginning to question myself is how much of a market there is for a
lot of the tackle. Every collection has its gems and they are usually
the most liquid items. But how liquid will they be when some other of
the great collections I am aware of come on the market in the future
if we don't have a lot of new collectors seeking and able to buy the
stuff?
eBay has made a difference in every field of
collecting. You hit the nail on the head, though, when you said that
you can look at the thousands of items offered on eBay in a day and
simply NOT see the great stuff you saw at the show. I know for a fact
that this is the case with antique furniture and almost every other
specialized area of collecting. You want to see some great things you
go to the shows. Or visit the dealers/ collectors who handle the
better and best items. I believe that although the eBay effect seems
a detraction from the shows, that the shows are still at the heart of
things. And you are right about guys bringing showcases of items from
their own collections to shows and being willing to share their
enthusiasm with the public. A lot of essentials for the promotion of
this hobby surfaced in your editorial.
Personally, I think the fakes and repaints will
sort themselves out in the end and we'll never be able to stop this
stuff from entering the marketplace. I'm going to keep the faith that
those who can afford to will always seek the best and that the fakes
will eventually make the right stuff more valuable and sought after.
We won't have to resort to fishing with our flying hellgrammites.
I'm happy to have read what you wrote. A lot of
guys ought to think about what you're saying. Thanks for taking the
time to express what you did.
Sincerely, Jeff Herr
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